Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 10, 2005, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Now that pet attacks/shouts no longer trigger Zealot's Fire, what is there to do?

PvP/PvE Beast Ranger [aka warrior extention]

10+2 Beast Mastery
8+1 Expertise
10 Smiting
extra to marksmanship+1 for bow req. or what have you...

Call of Haste
Maiming Strike
Scavenger's Strike
Brutal Strike
Melandru's Assault/Call of Protection
Ferocious Strike {E} / Marksman's Wager {E}
Charm Animal
Balthasar's Aura

Depending on preference, you've got some options here for pve and pvp. I've found the 200 DoT to be quite fierce as it's armor ignoring and since the pet is full speed about 100% of the time, you should have no problems getting Balthasar's Aura out rapid fire. What I'm wondering is, is going 16 in beast worth it? [similar to a warrior's weapon mastery, this is beast mastery right?]

You get a boost to pet attack damage as well as increased crit rate. [I THINK you get increased crit rate, but damn anet won't let me see the damage my pet is doing, just myself...

]

Thanato · Sep 10, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

might i suggest comfort animal? (for the pet ressing). with so many BM skills you'd want to have some way of keeping your pet alive, if not you're stuck with bal's aura that you'll seldom cast, and a bow with no bow attacks

.

O.o and no res sig. your build has the look of my variants from THIS thread (plus a bunch more BM skills).

as for 16 in BM, i wouldnt advise it. rangers are stretched for attribute points to start with. i usually use 13/14 in BM. it might be worthwhile but i'd rather have it a smidge lower and save myself 36 attribute points.

hmm, seems you got no self-healing either. that might be problematic but you'd have to try it out first.

Add Dias The Swift to your friends list if you'd like, we could try out a tandem version of this build

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 10, 2005, 08:00 PM // 20:00

This is a pvp build, monk dependance is core. No res sig. Yes, I'll be on the half of the team that doesn't bring it... No healing for the pet. Who targets pets at all? ^_^

If everyone on your team needs to use a res sig, then you're doomed anyway. Half the team bringing it is my absolute limit.

Ok, 10+2 bm it is... ^_^ Thanks for the info. Anyone else?

Skel Flamebender · Sep 10, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Whenever I do Arenas and I see a pet I always tell them to kill pet then imdediatly kill the owner of the pet.

smurfhunter · Sep 11, 2005, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

This is a pvp build, monk dependance is core. No res sig. Yes, I'll be on the half of the team that doesn't bring it... No healing for the pet. Who targets pets at all? ^_^

If everyone on your team needs to use a res sig, then you're doomed anyway. Half the team bringing it is my absolute limit.

Ok, 10+2 bm it is... ^_^ Thanks for the info. Anyone else?

if this is for tombs... um... you might get away with having your pet alive simply because people see so many IWAY builds they might be scared of killing the pet. but if i see a ranger using that feral something (pet elite or w/e) i just switch to the pet and crush it. like a bug. seriously do you expect a pet to last more than about 2 seconds if a focused team attacks it? the point of killing it being that you (the ranger) cant do anything.

otoh IF the monks are healing the pet ill just keep attacking the pet to let them waste their energy on it, and as soon as i see lots of prots on it ill switch to a nearby squishy for an easy kill.

switching targets and distracting heals is a really underated concept, and your pet plays right into that. with the added effect of you doing nothing while you wait for your pet to get resd. and no sig?! you are going to end up just sitting there staring at your dead pet. and when your entire team is dead but you, i can imagine how it will go on ts.. "...i dont res anyone but my pet [player kicked]"

*edit you would think that bringing a pet to smite on and having him act as a warrior, you are doing the entire emo smiter/warrior combo in one. but the sad fact is that as a warrior i can drop a target insanely fast if he doesnt get healing. (something i had alot of experience in relic runs when the runner got too far ahead). i used to think warriors were just smitees, but the more i look at it a warrior can really do alot. your build is sort of a weak (if not useless) version of both that really doesnt cut it imo.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 11, 2005, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

if this is for tombs... um... you might get away with having your pet alive simply because people see so many IWAY builds they might be scared of killing the pet. but if i see a ranger using that feral something (pet elite or w/e) i just switch to the pet and crush it. like a bug. seriously do you expect a pet to last more than about 2 seconds if a focused team attacks it? the point of killing it being that you (the ranger) cant do anything.

otoh IF the monks are healing the pet ill just keep attacking the pet to let them waste their energy on it, and as soon as i see lots of prots on it ill switch to a nearby squishy for an easy kill.

switching targets and distracting heals is a really underated concept, and your pet plays right into that. with the added effect of you doing nothing while you wait for your pet to get resd. and no sig?! you are going to end up just sitting there staring at your dead pet. and when your entire team is dead but you, i can imagine how it will go on ts.. "...i dont res anyone but my pet [player kicked]"

*edit you would think that bringing a pet to smite on and having him act as a warrior, you are doing the entire emo smiter/warrior combo in one. but the sad fact is that as a warrior i can drop a target insanely fast if he doesnt get healing. (something i had alot of experience in relic runs when the runner got too far ahead). i used to think warriors were just smitees, but the more i look at it a warrior can really do alot. your build is sort of a weak (if not useless) version of both that really doesnt cut it imo.

alright, then you're one of the few people who WILL attack the pet, along with one of the previous posters... Hmm, if I were to remove some of the pet attacks, turn him tanky, and just have him stand next to a foe, I wonder if he'll do the job?

Revised for people who WANT a dead pet...

10+2 BM
7+1 marksmanship
8+1 expertise
10 Smiting
rest to wilderness +1

Ferocious Strike {E}
Symbiotic Bond
Call of Haste
Call of Protection
Otoyugh's Cry
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Balthasar's Aura

Ok, here we have a nearly unkillable pet that sticks to ya like glue and in doing so, tears ya through faster atkspd and Balthasar's aura. Apparently, armor ignoring dmg shouldn't work since Call of Protection reduces dmg, not adds AL... I think that's the trick... So how's this nigh-invincible walking nuke configuration? [btw, I think snaring/crippling the pet won't do much since that snare/cripple could be used on someone more important, like say a warrior? ^_^]

*edit* no room for self-healing I noticed but wouldn't my monk be doing it?

smurfhunter · Sep 11, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

you cant res anyone but your pet. rangers are pretty low on the priority list so you probably need it.

and idk... do you really think those calls of __ are gonna save your pet? i mean like 2 axe attacks and hes shredded... monks shouldnt be healing pets, they have a hard enough time with 8 people.

my problem with the idea of pets used for anything except dying is that they distract heals. oh and btw i think this might work better as a mo/r, you can smite better and you have better energy, so you can probably dump ferocious for something like SoJ (shield not signet), and annoy people who attack your pet.

all in all this isnt a build i would use but if you really want to....

wolfy3455 · Sep 12, 2005, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

you cant res anyone but your pet. rangers are pretty low on the priority list so you probably need it.

and idk... do you really think those calls of __ are gonna save your pet? i mean like 2 axe attacks and hes shredded... monks shouldnt be healing pets, they have a hard enough time with 8 people.

my problem with the idea of pets used for anything except dying is that they distract heals. oh and btw i think this might work better as a mo/r, you can smite better and you have better energy, so you can probably dump ferocious for something like SoJ (shield not signet), and annoy people who attack your pet.

all in all this isnt a build i would use but if you really want to....

Pets now have the base armour of a warrior and call of protection is like 15 absorbtion. If you attacked a buffed pet, I'd laugh at you. You'll kill a ranger far faster than a buffed pet.

Your build has one thing about it that is close to making me cry. Your using smiting without JI. 16 BM is pretty nice damagewise with pet skills. Marksmanship, while nice, isn't that useful on a BM since you're not using attack skills, and not even getting 100% damage from it. Using a smiting rod gives you energy and doesnt require an additional investment. The way I view pets is as the person using them's weapon. They have great attack skills, they can be buffed well, and they have the best speed buff, sprint and frenzy in one with a slightly weakened frenzy in exchange for no drawbacks. The only problem is their unreliability. Their AI sucks.

When everything is working smoothly, the pet is faster than the player and doing nice damage with great interrupts. When its not going your way, your pet is attacking some warrior you were just trying to snare instead of attacking the squishy. So pets are too unreliable and IMO take up too many slots if you dont have someone bringing rez animal.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 12, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfy3455

Pets now have the base armour of a warrior and call of protection is like 15 absorbtion. If you attacked a buffed pet, I'd laugh at you. You'll kill a ranger far faster than a buffed pet.

Just tested this. Yeah, with Symbiotic bond, NO warrior can kill this pet.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 12, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Hmm, did some fast skill reading and some quick choices and have found the 3 things I needed to do to keep my pet up and running...

1. Damage
2. Containment
3. Longevity

since it's 3 duties, and I HAD to bring Charm Animal and Balthsar's Aura, I needed to divide them into 6 skills. So 2 skills per role was needed.

R/Mo Long Range Warrior build

10+2 Beast Mastery
8+1 Expertise
7+1 Marksmanship
10 Smiting Prayers
4+1 Wilderness Survival

Ferocious Strike {E}
Melandru's Assault / Troll Unguent
Maiming Strike
Call of Haste
Symbiotic Bond
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
Balthasar's Aura

I don't know if it is, but I think Brutal Strike is probably the most damaging attack that a pet has which is tied with Melandru's Assault in terms of damage. Though as far as that is concerned, I think I'll do more dmg vs. someone in arenas more often with Melandru's since Brutal is somewhat weak without their hp being low to start with. However, people have enchants on them most of the time. [heh heh heh, mending...] So Melandru's Assault should easily fit the bill [and splash dmg too].

In Random Arena, where a monk is sometimes there and sometimes not, Troll Unguent, though shitty I won't argue, will keep me going should the pet get clobbered. 50% dmg removed from the pet is NOT a bad idea and is probably the best defense I'll get for my energy. +1 hp regen isn't bad either...

In terms of containment vs. dmg... Stuffing their escape with Call of Haste and Maiming Strike should help with keeping Balthasar's Aura up in their face and to feed this monstrous nuke every 15s, I'd say 2 Ferocious Strikes should be enough.

Anet should allow some form of condition/hex removal to Beast Masters but I guess that'd make them too overpowered. [they get them from a monk secondary but perhaps making comfort animal or a new skill that heals, and cures both conditions and hexes but more expensive would work too]. Thankfully, very very few people would aim at a pet even if told to...

I was using an icey half-moon for my bow due to being a former r/e ice high build, but now that I don't want to be anywhere NEAR my foes, I'd like to try and find a Flatbow of some sort. Something fast, but ranged as well. Sure I'd be missing but who cares? My bow is just there to add to the massive dps the pet with Aura would deal. I'm wondering what bowstring. I'm guessing Crippling since Maiming Strike cripple is affected by my bowstring and Zealous won't help since Flatbow misses vs. a moving enemy usually. [but I'm supposing it crits more since its high arc suggests several headshots...] If not Crippling, what would be a good bowstring to carry? [no % to occur effects please, I don't want a 'chance', I want something certain...] It's of Fortitude... [high armor doesn't really help too much due to my defense being high already...damn armor ignoring degen....]

smurfhunter · Sep 12, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

yknow, im just gonna go adapt your build to 4-4 and try it out

you almost have me convinced the pet is invincible

by adapt i mean take out something like call of haste and put in whirling and make sure i have troll. that way i last > 2 seconds. tell ya how it goes ^^

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 12, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

yknow, im just gonna go adapt your build to 4-4 and try it out

you almost have me convinced the pet is invincible

by adapt i mean take out something like call of haste and put in whirling and make sure i have troll. that way i last > 2 seconds. tell ya how it goes ^^

Aight cool... ^_^

Symbiotic Bond - must deal 960 dmg in one shot for pet to die... I like that...

smurfhunter · Sep 12, 2005, 11:04 PM // 23:04

blah i might take some time to test it... lotsa hoh'ing and were making this new guild and its really weird and yea... might take some time to test it =/

havent forgotten about it tho

wolfy3455 · Sep 12, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

yknow, im just gonna go adapt your build to 4-4 and try it out

you almost have me convinced the pet is invincible

by adapt i mean take out something like call of haste and put in whirling and make sure i have troll. that way i last > 2 seconds. tell ya how it goes ^^

Taking call of haste out is like making a warrior without a speed buff and sprint. I'm personally against taking pet defensive skills, but if enough people are stupid enough to attack a pet, go for it. I view it similarly to a warrior using gladiators and bonettis. The other comment I have is that you're not using disrupting lunge which is basically a better version of disrupting shot cooldown and damagewise, although again, its not as reliable.

One thing I'm really curious about is how pet shouts affect allies' pets. A universal effect would really benefit non-IWAY pet builds to the point of viability. You could just have one Mo/R specialize in pet defense and call of haste so that the rangers can be more efficient. The only way to test this is by sight so its a bit hard to test.

smurfhunter · Sep 13, 2005, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfy3455

Taking call of haste out is like making a warrior without a speed buff and sprint. I'm personally against taking pet defensive skills, but if enough people are stupid enough to attack a pet, go for it. I view it similarly to a warrior using gladiators and bonettis. The other comment I have is that you're not using disrupting lunge which is basically a better version of disrupting shot cooldown and damagewise, although again, its not as reliable.

One thing I'm really curious about is how pet shouts affect allies' pets. A universal effect would really benefit non-IWAY pet builds to the point of viability. You could just have one Mo/R specialize in pet defense and call of haste so that the rangers can be more efficient. The only way to test this is by sight so its a bit hard to test.

actually pets move faster than people do - so i think call of haste is redundant. and using a defense is because ultimately they *will* go for the pet, especially in team/competition arenas, and i want to see how strong they are to that kind of hate

and i dont think i understand your global shout thing... like why would you want to keep the pets alive in an iway build. the best counter is the ball strategy and if you kill the pets all the warriors are blacked out when people die so they cant res.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 13, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

I'd be especially wary of a 4 w/r team of IWAY coupled with Battle Rage {E}

Imagine, frenzied warriors running and gaining double adrenaline repeatedly AS WELL AS OVER 10 pips of energy regen [which counters any enemy degen skills] forEVAR!!!

At any rate, I've tested Symbiotic Bond both for farming and for pvp purposes. I must say 0_0. It will get YOU killled if you're not careful, however, with Troll Unguent [which will only be casted while you're hiding behind a hill like the coward you are], the pet will be nigh unkillable.

I'm considering dumping Ferocious Strike {E} for Marksman's Wager {E}. Why? I get a LOT more energy nailing foes with Marksman's over 12s. then Ferocious, my only gripe is that when you use a pet skill, your ranger immediately stops whatever he's doing for one second. [which is stupid. Why must you stop moving for your pet to do something? What you doing? shouting commands to it?] Can't one shout and shoot at the same time?

I've decided to chuck Melandru's Assualt for Disrupting Lunge. It's just too spammable for me to ignore and it's like a much more dangerous version of Disrupting Chop/Distracting Shot. I pray I have enchant removal on my teammates...

Lebdan · Sep 13, 2005, 03:49 PM // 15:49

I run a R/Mo pet build, but I don't use the Monk part.
It's focused on disrupting and interrupting, with some damage added into it.

Beast Mastery 12+1+3
Marksmanship 8+1
Expertise (rest)+1
Wilderness Survival (the 1 or 2 att points left)+1
I use a Poisoner's Short Bow of whatever for the faster refire rate.

Disrupting Lunge
Bestial Pounce
Disrupting Shot
Crippling Shot
Apply Poison (just for an added degen damage)
Call of Haste
Charm Animal
Resurrection Signet

Although it leaves me completely open, people still don't have Rangers and its pets as primary targets. It's a good build, not only for the disruption, but because even if you lose your pet, you'll still be able to help your team. Also, with Call of Haste, the pet attacks are fast enough to disrupt a 2 second cast you're watching.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 13, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebdan

I run a R/Mo pet build, but I don't use the pet part.

What?

smurfhunter · Sep 13, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

What?

LOL and fyi this thread has been looked at 666 times

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 13, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

I said "what" because that's a hypocritical statement...

Anyone with a pet who truely wants to use one for something useful other than dying should treat it as a remote control warrior.